Revit Copy from Project to Family #Fail

To premise this, I have always known of the limitations of copying from a project to a family and I try to inform my users of this but every once in a while I am faced with someone bashing their head against a wall. For those of you who don't know, if you try to copy detail components from the project into a detail component family you are faced with this: 

I don't really know why we are not allowed to do this but it is unfortunately a limitation. The limitation is with detail components, not detail lines.  What I want to express though is the disconnect with the documentation for Revit and what one can actually do. To begin, one can still load .RVG files into a family, but you cannot save to .RVG since Revit 2008.  This is from the help files under the definitions:

And here are the instructions from Autodesk for saving groups and it states that one can save a group as a .RVT or .RFA:  

So what is the problem with this?  If you can save a group as a .RFA then you can copy to another family, right?  Well the problem is that there is not actually the ability to save a group as a .RFA.  When one follows the instructions (Revit Application Button - Save As - Library - Group (Or rightclick on group in Project Browser) one can only save a .RVT.     

As a wrap up, I want to stress the need to think before you detail within the project. Try to determine if you want to detail using separate detail components or embed multiple detail components into one larger detail component, for example a parapet detail that will repeat multiple times. I know you are thinking, "Why doesn't he just use detail groups for the repeating details?" Well, that is for another post but basically you cannot put faith in the consistency of detail groups. Detail components will sometimes move, drop out of a detail group and you will face the dreaded ungroup or create new group dilemma. These group issues are the reason one of my users is about to throw her computer out the window. Now she has to waste an enormous amount of time just so that we can ensure that the details are consistent by redrawing complex details in a new detail component with no reference back to the model.

Not very BIM... am I missing something obvious?

Update on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 at 9:00AM by Jason Grant

Check out this information from Luke at http://whatrevitwants.blogspot.com/

What Revit Wants: Copy between Project and Family
What Revit Wants: Copy from Annotation to Model Families

Did not work for detail components but may give some individuals a work around for some cases.

Thanks Luke

Update on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 at 10:30AM by Jason Grant

A mystery commenter pointed out that if you actually ready the first line of the instructions, Who does that? :), then one would see that RFA saved group is only an ability if you are in the family.

By golly... mystery person was correct. Oversight on my part.  Still, it does not resolve the issue that one needs to resolve a detail in the project, groups are buggy to the point that they cannot be trusted and then you cannot copy the detail components to a new detail component family. So one is stuck with unreliable details in the project or detailing without the project as a background. 

Pick your evil

Autodesk Showcase or Project Galileo... for Architects?

So, a month ago I asked the question "What happened to Project Newport?"  Thanks Steve Stafford and Don Rudder for your responses of Project Galileo and Autodesk Showcase.  Both I had seen but did not think either captured what an Architect would need and what Project Newport seemed like it would provide.  If these are the solutions, I think Autodesk is missing a huge opportunity for architects to share their models with clients or walk a client through a building during design.  These tasks impossible to do with the slow refresh within Revit.

Autodesk Showcase

I downloaded the 64bit trial and brought one of our moderately sized files into it.  Some of my concerns with this program are:

• Materials do not come in with the Revit Model.  The entire model was black and it was time consuming to assign the materials.
• Moving around the model was just as slow as within Revit.  Although, I must say that this program may perform better with a "great" video card.  Revit does not seem to benefit that much from an expensive card but this program might.
• Hard to make selection sets.  I had to scroll through numerous Revit elements to find a grouping of curtain wall panels, assign a material and then scroll through to find another set of the same type of panels.
• Definately, this product was designed for the industrial designer with a smaller model and less elements to select.  Would love to use but too difficult to sell to my project teams.
• Do like the ability to show different material options but initial setup is difficult.

Project Galileo

• Faster than Showcase on moving the scene around but again, probably the better the video card the faster the scene moves.  Just a guess though.
• Brings in the FBX with most materials... not all.  I am confused about this one but I think it may be unaltered Revit default materials that it keeps.  See image comparison below.
• Since the materials did not come in correct, I could not find any way to change the material of sub-objects in the imported FBX which makes things difficult.
• Don't understand the functionality of adjusting the scale during import.  Who would want to do that? You draw to scale, why would you want a building to be an odd scale and incorrect with its surroundings?
• If using Galileo for one project, I would suggest breaking up your Revit data into multiple FBX files to give more control within Galileo.

  From Revit with Realistic Mode, Shadows and Ambient From Galileo after FBX Export from Revit

Results

Autodesk Showcase and Project Galileo both have half of what was shown in Project Newport.  Galileo has faster navigation and Showcase has material control.  Anyway we can get these together? 

top posts from 2010

Looking back on 2010, these are the top 5 topics that I posted in case you missed it.

Number 5 is the Stair Planning family that was created based off a complex math based stair to show the potential of triangles during Autodesk University 2010. Check out the post to get your copy of the family.

Revit Stair Planning Family from Jason Grant on Vimeo.

Number 4 is the solution that we struggled over with a license issue that was occurring with the Revit 2011 install.

Number 3 is the article on "Super Families" which I plan on expanding on more in the 2011 year.

Number 2 is the survey on how much BIM support different firms employ and how it differs by firm type and size. There have been a few individuals who have told me that this had assisted their effort to get more BIM support for their offices. Let me know if you saw a benefit also from this report. I really enjoy hearing from my readers.

Number 1 with over 2,600 hits is the sheets creator add-in for Revit that I started creating based on an Autodesk University 2009 session I presented. This utility helps one create sheets within Revit much more quickly and with significantly less clicks. I plan on continuing this further as well as other apps in the 2011 year.

Sheet Creator 2011.2 Demo from Jason Grant on Vimeo.

Thanks to the following other bloggers with the top 5 referrals to this site which helps to get the word out to others:  Steve Stafford with RevitOpEd, Jeffery Pinheiro with The Revit Kid, Gregory Arkin with Revit3D, Peter McCarthy with Revit-Detail and David Duarte with Revit Beginners.

I hope you enjoyed following this site as much as I enjoy sharing with the world. Thanks for a great 2010 and let's toast to 2011.

Christmas Gift - Stair Planning Family

Ever get frustrated creating a stair in Revit when you know that it will change a dozen or more times before the end of schematic design?  This family will give one the ability to create a schematic stair with the knowledge that it will occupy the correct amount of space with the most minimal time to produce multiple options.  No more fiddling with the stair tools within Revit before one is ready to.  I am giving this to all who want it as a Christmas Gift.  Go to the download section of the site or click here.

This was easy to produce after the effort that went into Fuzzy Math for Autodesk University and make sure to thank the BIM Troublemaker for making the comment during the session about how a planning family could be very beneficial.

Revit Stair Planning Family from Jason Grant on Vimeo.

Revit UI Fail - Edit Group Panel Disappears

I have had numerous users in the last couple weeks tell me that their group panel disappears and in a panic they don't know that "CG" will close the group without save and "FG" will finish the group.  We have been using Revit 2011 since around when it was released so I don't know if this is a Service Pack 2 issue or my users just were not using groups as much until recently.

I DO HAVE A FIX THOUGH!

 The fix is relatively easy, if you get your panel back then you can start the edit group command.  Once edit group is activated you can click on the modify tab and drag the edit group panel into the ribbon.  So far this has worked for anyone who had the issue. 

If you cannot get your Edit Group panel back try the following: turn off the properties window and the project browser window.  Turn them back on and try edit group again.

David Light also sent me some info that he found if one starts either a new project or family, then go back to original then you should get the panel back.

Either way, once you get it back... DOCK IT!  No need to go through hoops over and over when trying to edit your groups.